Last week I was involved in a number of engaging online discussions and interviews - two around swim coaching, others beyond. This blog post dives in on some of the questions that arose around the future of Motivational Interviewing, fixed and growth mindsets and back into the depths of motivation.
Motivational Interviewing: Where to next?
Click on the image for the full 2hour 20min recording
In a wide ranging discussion, led by eminent psychologist Professor Stephen Rollnick, we were taken through where Motivational Interviewing (MI) has come from, where it is now and where it might go in the future. Over a hundred attendees logged in from around the world to hear and join in the discussion with guest leading practitioners and researchers.
A Little Background
MI started in the health care sector, born out of the dilemma that conventional approaches to encouraging people to overcome addictions or other self-harming conditions typically met with resistance and poor results. With its roots in person centred counselling, MI puts the emphasis on an attentive, empathetic way of understanding the emotions someone may have toward their need and desire for change. And it puts the person at the centre of creating their change, a way forward coming from them rather than the therapist or support worker.
Breadth and Depth
The discussion highlighted the very wide spread of areas where MI approaches have come to be used. Previous webinars delved into MI in working with those with eating disorders and its application in inner city youth projects. This time law enforcement and even interrogation were dwelt on - which I have to say I’m still uncertain about! And I was called up to say a little about my own sports coaching where I’m finding my focus on confidence and self belief is enriched by insights and practices from MI.
Professor Rollnick at one point posed the question “so what is it that master practitioners across these different fields do that makes them effective?” The big repeated themes were all about compassion and empathy. From a psychotherapy perspective Dr Allan Zuckoff described the therapist as uniquely focusing on such a deep, empathic understanding of their patient that they, the therapist, can put into just the right words their patient’s mix of emotions, what he and others describe as their ambivalence, as if giving voice to what previously could not be expressed, and in the process together find a way forward. Wow.
Boundaries & Ambivalence
Two things follow for me. First, on boundaries, I strongly believe sports coaches should not stray into trying to be counsellors or therapists (despite what I sometimes hear from some coaches at the elite level). The empathy that I want to practise in coaching starts out from looking for the uniqueness of the person in front of me, having a curiosity to find out what brings them to their particular challenge and creating the space to understand where they’re coming from, what gets in the way and what will help them realise their ambitions.
And this leads on to a point about ambivalence that I was left unsure about. Taking Allan Zuckoff’s example, I can see the relevance of ambivalence as describing someone going to a professional, qualified therapist in order to make sense of their hard to articulate mix of feelings, possibly being stuck but not knowing how, if they are able or even want to move on. In the webinar I was left wondering whether ambivalence really captures where some of the people I work with - and for whom I know MI infused Confidence Centred Coaching can have enormous benefits - are really at.
Fixed to Growth Mindsets: how to switch?
And with that thought churning away in my mind, the next day I came to be interviewed by a journalist for a US swimming organisation who wanted to know about my use of Growth & Fixed Mindsets in coaching swimmers. She asked how do I help someone move from a self-defeating fixed mindset to a more open, positive growth mindset?
A Little Background & Practice
I know some academic psychologists are sceptical of Carol Dweck’s pioneering notion of Growth and Fixed Mindsets - the deeply ingrained attitudes we carry about our abilities and self belief (or lack of it) in facing challenges. For me, I’ve found it to be a very powerful way of supporting some of those I coach. Certainly in swim coaching I regularly have people come who even before we’ve started will tell me they’re “rubbish”, will be a “beyond hope challenge” for me. Or as we start trying out a new technique that (predictably) doesn’t automatically happen, will beat themselves up, saying ”oh why can’t I do this?” “I’m just being stupid.”
In the interview I talked through some of the practical steps that seem to help - of slowing the pace down and emphasising the novelty of what we’re about to try, that it is unlikely to all click and fall into place in one session, encouraging what I call an attitude of “patient persistence” and more. Suggesting a well placed use of the wonderful little word “yet” can also help: “I can’t do this… yet.”
On Bravery & Respect
With the previous day’s discussions on my mind, though, I also wanted to emphasise two more fundamental points.
The first is about stepping back and marvelling at the sheer bravery of someone who comes looking for help to swim whilst still having all those self-critical doubts and ingrained self-limiting convictions. This is where I think the term ‘ambivalence’ doesn’t really capture what I sense or see. Instead I see something paradoxical going on - that the very desire to change brings forward all the fixed mindset doubts. My would-be swimmers have a very clear and strong desire to change, to overcome past fears and years of telling themselves (or being told) that they can’t do something - otherwise they wouldn’t be coming to me for help to learn to swim.
“These mountains that you are carrying, you were only supposed to climb”
Now, imagine if, as coaches, we had a “master practitioner’s” sensitivity to and an empathetic appreciation of the shape, weight and colour of the challenges people come to us holding. For many, these are not just to learn a technique or ‘tick off' an item on a list of things to do, though they may initially express it that way. Drawing on the beautiful quote from the poet Najwa Zebian, some of those who approach us for coaching support, on the face of it to climb a mountain, are actually carrying it on their backs.
And as such their ambitions need to be treated with the utmost respect, as if we are being handed a precious gift of someone’s raw vulnerability and far reaching hopes. For the coach, I believe holding this in mind and making the space to understand the nature of their challenge comes before any supposed quick fixes, catchy things to say or top tips to switch from a fixed to growth mindset - not that I do top tips or one size fits all solutions!
“Who Owns the Right Way?”
The second underpinning approach comes from a phrase I like to use and I shared in the interview: “who owns the right way?” Swimming by its very nature is a technical, complex skill to develop. The way in which we are taught to be swim teachers and earn our qualifications breaks much of this complexity down into a fixed order and stages - helpful maybe as a structure into which key techniques can fit but leading, in my view, to a rather regimented and formulaic approach, with the coach or teacher as the arbiter of what counts as the right way to swim.
Something I’ve learnt, though, particularly through working with children with disabilities, is that it doesn’t have to be that way. For some of these children the regimented sequences of skill development and stages of progression make little sense - though they are fabulous swimmers in the making. Our sessions are much freer, totally child focused explorations in possibilities - trying out what feels right for them and enables them to be safe, to be in control and confident, to enjoy and progress in whatever makes sense for them. I’ve found this liberating and informs how I coach in general. And the children seem to have a great time too.
Back to our fixed mindset challenged swimmer, impatiently struggling to learn something new, I think “who owns the right way?” can also be applied.
I place a big emphasis on how a swimmer - of whatever ability or ambition - feels in the water: how the stroke is coming together for them, how they hold and press the water back, which muscles are working and how it’s coming together in a strong, everything in sync rhythm. With their permission I might suggest trying something new, such as a change to the hand entry or how they reach for clear water. And typically they’ll ask me straight after a length or two “how did that look?” as if I’m the keeper of the rule book of perfect swimming. No doubt slightly irritating for some, I’ll always reply by insisting they first tell me how it felt. The intention is for the swimmer to attune themselves to what feels the right way, owning that feeling and being excited about taking it further. How it looks to me standing poolside is less important.
And Back to Motivation: “Who’s Driving the Bus?”
On to one more interview I was asked to give. This one was organised and hosted by a good friend and super coach, Kate Offord in Manchester. To keep the connections going through all the coronavirus restrictions, she and a colleague who runs Connect Coaching set up The Pool Gallery as an online swimming community for swimmers and parents, championing positive performance mindsets. They have guest speakers Zoom in to share ideas and experiences and answer questions from the virtual Gallery - in my case on open water swimming.
I was struck by one young, clearly very dedicated and proficient swimmer who has just recently discovered the fun of open water swimming with a supervised group - only for her swim club coach to put pressure on her to stick to the high volume regime of pool training. It was not my place to encourage her one way or the other, though I’d like to think my love of open water swimming and coaching people for big open water challenges came through.
I was reminded though of a super phrase I heard from the Seattle Seahawks Head Coach and co-founder of Compete to Create, Pete Carroll. Quizzed in an interview about what he would say to a young sports person who has just “blown it” at a big competition and is feeling deeply demotivated, he responded with the great phrase “who’s driving the bus here?” In other words, not just “who owns the right way?” but also whose motivation is at play here? Pete Carroll went on to speculate whether this young person is really being encouraged to find their passion and do the things they enjoy - it could be that their real passion lies in other areas: arts, music, dance, science… And I’d add, irrespective of whether others judge them to be good at one thing or another.
I wonder what sports coaching - particularly for young people - would look like if we took a more open, creative approach to helping each unique individual find the swimmer, runner, athlete… in them rather than fixing on set paths that everyone must follow. I suspect we would end up prioritising very different criteria for success, to do with their enjoyment, the connections they thrive on and their sense of an exciting, increasing fluency. And I believe the podium places and performances would take care of themselves.
For now many thanks to Professor Rollnick, Joel Porter and Russel Calderwood and all involved in the MI webinar, to my interviewers and their guests for their thought provoking questions and of course to all those who come to me for coaching with their wonderful ambitions - what a privilege.
As always please leave any reflections and thoughts in the comments box below.